309 – Bloom Where You Are Planted with Jim Simpson

John Over the last two decades, I’ve been on an insatiable quest to learn everything I can about leadership. What makes the best leaders so good? After running companies small and large over the last 20 years, today I speak on stages all across the world to audiences who are interested in that same question. My name is John Laurito. I’m your host, and I invite you to join me on this journey as we explore this very topic and what makes the best leader so good. Welcome to tomorrow’s leader. 

John All right. Tomorrow’s leader I have on the show today, Jim Simpson. He is the CEO of Blue Mirror, which is a leading cybersecurity provider of automated threat detection and response technology. Jim is as good as he gets. He is a great leader, by the way. I did not realize that it takes the average company 280 days before they realize they’ve had a security breach. What? That’s nuts. Unbelievable. That’s why people like Jim are doing what they do. So we talk lots about life and leadership. I actually had a brief conversation and kind of a mini-podcast with him back in July. I love the conversation so much. I said, Okay, we got to have a more in-depth conversation and really give it some time and not be rushed. So here is that conversation. I know you’re going to love it. Here’s Jim Simpson. 

John All right. Welcome to today’s episode of Tomorrow’s Leader, where we dove deep into all things leadership, how to lead yourself better and lead others. As you just heard, I’ve got a great guest here for you, Jim Simpson. Jim, well, welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show. This is part two. So great to have you again. 

Jim Thanks. I am happy to be here. We had a lot of fun last time, so we did. 

John Yeah. And that’s why I figured let’s get even deeper and let’s talk even more than just a quick little 10 minutes. So lot to share with the audience. I would love to go back to, you know, you’ve you are this leader today, but I really want to start with kind of as you look back in your life and I know you had a lot of interesting experiences as a kid. Were there things you look back on now that you say, wow, this was a really cool thing? I didn’t know it at the time, but it shaped who I am and it impacted who I am as a leader. 

Jim Yeah, yeah. There’s two things that come to mind immediately. I’m a what they call a military brat. So my father was in the military. And what that means is I moved a lot as a kid, and there are pros and cons to that. You can ask my mother who had to pack up the house over and over again. But one of the really great things that came out of it is, you know, just the reintroduction or introducing different environments over and over again and having to learn to become adaptable to them and having that be a way of life versus something that’s unusual. And in particular, we moved to Japan when I was young and I did most of my formative years in high school living in Japan. And one of the interesting things about their society is, number one, there’s a lot less violence in it, there’s a lot more group focus and there’s a lot more thought given towards like how how do we all get along together and help each other? And I’m generalizing. So, you know, every society has its challenges, but like in particular, you know, one of the things that really stood out in my mind was the fact that my parents gave me a lot more autonomy than I might have had otherwise. So the ability to take risks go on on adventures and kind of make my own life. And that really stood out to me when I came back to the States. And, you know, I started meeting my peers in the States. And I was finding that while like we were, you know, intellectually at the same level and, you know, smart, I had a lot more ability in terms of like being able to go out there and just sort of live and be a part of the world because I’d had that opportunity when I was growing up. 

John It’s kind of give you a lot of confidence, right? I mean, I’m just thinking all that kind of stepping outside your comfort zone. I can’t be as an 11-year-old kid going to Japan comfortable. I mean, you didn’t know the language you’re really going into, you know, an unusual situation. 

Jim Yeah, there is some confidence. There’s also like, you know, having the people to help you see the opportunity. So one of the things my father said over and over again was, bloom, where you’re planted, you know, it’s like you don’t have a choice in this. So try to try to seize the opportunity and like having a younger sister. And we actually had very different outcomes because of these experiences. You know, she was not as interested in like, you know, seeing the opportunity, whereas I was like, oh my gosh, like I guess I don’t speak the language, but I’m going to go outside and like run around and play with the other kids. And, you know, I learned the language and became bilingual. But I’ll tell you, the first things I learned were, you know, swear words and how to buy candy and things like that. All of the things that are really enjoyable to kids. Yes, right. But like that, being able to do that and being included, like because I was, you know, making friends in spite of some of the challenges I had. Yeah, I guess I was very, very confident and inspiring in a way. 

John So it’s interesting. Because I think about that a lot, you know, and I was not a military kid, but I moved 30 times in my life at least. I mean crazy amounts. And I look back on that. At the time I hated it. I thought it was the worst thing in the world. But I looked and it did, to your point, teach me how to be adaptable. It took me it taught me how to step outside my comfort zone and approach people. And you were saying this earlier when we talked about how people are pretty much the same. I mean, people all kind of have the same fears, right? 

Jim Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, when I came back from Japan, my cousin Kim was a counselor for something the Red Cross used to not know if they do anymore. It was called LDC. It was like a leadership development camp, and they would take people up into the California teenagers, up into the California mansion mountains for about a week throughout the summer. And, you know, I was a little bit nervous about, you know, participating in this. And, you know, she gave me this advice where she was like, look, nobody knows who you are, so you could actually be anybody you wanted to be. And to me, that seemed like a little bit like I’m like, what is she talking about? Like, my brand is like I’m like the smart computer kid, you know? I don’t know. I like playing video games. I don’t have a whole lot of friends, but, you know, I’m a nice person. And but again, I was like, well, I don’t know, maybe I’ll play around with this. And what I she was right because everyone else was approaching it from the same perspective. Everyone was kind of shy going into it. 

Jim And so I was like, Okay, well, I’m just going to try this out. And I was like, I’m going to start saying hi to people, introducing myself, and like going out of my comfort zone because what do I have to lose? I’ll never see these people again. But what I gained from that was like 30 people who I still know to this day. And a lot of it was I just I remember seeing in their face the gratitude of like, I’m so glad someone’s talking to me right now and I’m not alone. And I was just sort of like, this is a really powerful thing to like make that first move to take initiative. And like, I felt like I’d found some sort of secret because I was like, why didn’t. I thought I was the lowest common denominator. But here I am. And by the end of that camp, you know, I had found myself kind of in the center of a lot of the people that came up there. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, isn’t that unusual? I wonder, does anybody else know this? And when I went to college, the same exact thing happened. You know, I had a lot of friends on my hall in the dorm or a lot of guys in the hall in my dorm. And like, again, I noticed the same thing. People were intimidated. I was like looking around, I’m like, these are like, you know, people who probably really cool when they’re in high school or something, but for whatever reason, they’re really shy now. So I’m going to go say hi and see what happens. And it was the same thing. And like having that proven out twice in a very short period of time, I was like, okay, something about taking initiative is like really important for like life, so I’m going to do more of that. 

John Yeah, well, it’s interesting because and you make me think of a bunch of things and you’re right, initiative is one of them. And your that’s influence, right? You’re helping somebody do something that they might not have otherwise done, which is become part of a group, become more inclusive included and feeling included and, you know, be more comfortable with something that’s uncomfortable. So was that was that a point where you kind of viewed you’re starting to view yourself more as a leader? Is that was that the point or was there another point where you kind of looked and said, hey, I think this is a direction I’m really good at. 

Jim You know? Yeah, I wish I could say so. I was taking an online quiz and it said, You’re a leader. But no, it was more like, you know, an iterative process where, you know, by default, I think also because of growing up in Japan, I try to think more about the group or the team. And, you know, even though I am the leader, I still want to be approachable. And so it wasn’t until, you know, a bit later in my career when I began to notice that like when I saw a vacuum, you know, complaining about like, you know, a need, like, oh, this thing isn’t happening in the company or we’re not working on this feature for this project, or like this person isn’t doing this thing, you know, I noticed that like identifying it alone was not going to actually solve the problem and maybe it was somebody else’s responsibility. However, filling that need or stepping up and doing something about it is what made the difference. And the other part about it was the recognition that sometimes people didn’t realize or didn’t see it the same way. And that’s when I began to think, well, maybe this is actually like a skill set or something that’s different about me or something that can, you know, I can help other people with or model to other people. 

Jim And it really was, you know, the first time I became a manager that, you know, I had the opportunity to try some of the word out more officially and see and, you know, there’s a lot of different ideas about how people should manage. And, you know, in my career, I’d been given feedback like, you need to be more of a leader, which always kind of was gutting. I was like, What does that mean? It’s like, Well. And what the feedback really was there is they wanted me to be a leader that directed people, whereas I always felt my leadership style was more like pushing people forward and trying to figure out like where their strengths were, what things they could grow in, and then what things we should never have them do. Which was a lot less about telling people what to do and like how they should think, and more about like trying to figure out like what makes them tick, what motivates them. And that’s when I was like, okay, this is the thing. But I don’t think that that’s always rewarded in corporate America, at least in my experience, because I watched other people go the other out and everyone’s like, Oh, that person’s like really decisive and great, and like, let’s promote them. And meanwhile I’m like, well, I have like the most reliable team. Like, how do I get ahead? But just to be a little bit longer in a different route to get here. But when I look at my team, I know that they feel empowered as to what they’re doing and that this is a way of being a leader. That and I’m sure someone’s written about this, you know, because like some of my leadership stuff I’ve discovered on my own. But, you know, half the time when you’re a leader, you’re like, oh, someone like really important wrote a book about that 30 years ago. I just know how to read it yet. So. 

John Right, right. Exactly. Never in a journey of reading. Reading is is it do you figure out? Because I think a lot of people struggle with this as leaders trying to figure out, you know, not to sound too philosophical about who they are, you know, as a leader, like, okay, this is who I’m comfortable being. And I think we try there’s a lot of effort sometimes to try to anticipate what type of leader you should be in a situation and adapt to be that. And we forget sometimes too, to be ourselves. Do you get to a point where you figure out, you know, Hey, okay, I’m rock solid, I know who I am, I know what I’m going to do. Or is it just this neverending journey to kind of constantly try and figure yourself out? 

Jim I think that we’re always evolving, and I know that sounds like a cop-out of an answer. But, you know, in my career when I thought about like moving into management and leadership or what have you was like, okay, once I’m the manager, then everything will be great. Nope. There are still challenges. Once I’m the director and I have managers, then it’ll be great. No, once I’m the VP, nope, I’m the CEO now, and there are still things that I’m learning about myself. But what I will say is that things like I’ve really tried to pay attention to the things that have positive outcomes for both me and the people around me and do more of those things. And so there’s sometimes I’ve done things that didn’t work out so great. But, you know, I think that like it’s just a continual process and you, you have to be paying attention. And I feel pretty strongly about like who I am and where I am right now. But I’m always open to figuring out like, well, are there things I should be doing differently? And I think long story short, like even when you become the CEO, there’s still like a little bit of like, hey, am I doing all the right things? You know, is this the way I should be? And people externally have said, Yes, you’re doing great, so do what you’re doing. So I think it’s important to be reflective even if you have like sort of solidified it in many ways and into a point of leadership. 

John Well, and I think a part of it also is goes back to what you said earlier, and that everybody has fears and oftentimes is to the same fears as a kid. Maybe it’s difficult, somewhat different as an adult, but probably not too much. And I, I find it very interesting and also, you know, comforting that as I talk to leaders and some very some leaders of very large organizations, if they’re candid and open, they’ll share. You know what? They actually do have the same fears. I had a very interesting conversation with the leader last week who had said that he was feeling like, hey, I don’t think I’m the best person for this. You know, I’m not necessarily the most qualified person. And it wasn’t necessarily a lack of confidence in me being able to do it, but it was an awareness that, hey, listen, you know, there are people that could do this better. I’m still learning. I’m still growing. There’s a reason for me and a need for me to hire people around me that are great. And that’s what he’s done. That filled some of the gaps that I have. So I think that humility is important as a leader, too. 

Jim Yeah, self-awareness. I think you hit the nail right on the head there. And like, when I think back sometimes in my career, there were points where I was disappointed, like, oh, I didn’t get that job, or that person was my manager and I don’t think they were the right person being able to go back and go. Actually, there’s a reason why that didn’t happen for me and that person was actually a good leader for me. When you can sort of figure that out, it gets a lot easier because then you’re like seeking to like. Figure out, like, hey, what am I doing? Great. You know, what can I do better? You know, there’s that line about, you know, like the, you know, the teacher only appears in the student is ready. There’s some truth to that. You know, we can read that and go, oh, my gosh, yeah, that makes so much sense, you know, and I’m ready, but sometimes or not. But I think things accelerated for me when there was a point at which I was like, okay, so these things haven’t happened. What can I do? How can I get better? And you know, what is the critical feedback that I need to hear to move ahead and whether or not it’s true? Like going through the process of like being able to hear that feedback, assess it and then decide what you want to do next is, you know, I think the part that really made a difference for me. 

John Yeah, without a doubt. When you look back, were there times where you felt like you just you made some mistakes, you did some things where you like, geez, you look back now and you’re like, you know, that was a big, big learning. Any anything that you want you’re willing to share with the audience, because I think that’s always helpful for people to hear and see a successful leader really doing great, but look back and say, Hey, yeah, there were some things I, I missed. 

Jim I think, you know, let’s go back to something I said earlier was, you know, I saw my career working in early stage startups and it’s not always obvious, like why things happen when you are in IAC or you’re a first line manager, right? Like, you know, management might make a decision and you’re like, Well, that’s crazy. And I think that, you know, I have heard leaders phrase this different ways. One of the ways that we phrase this at a company I worked at called Go Security was like, you know, you need to assume positive intent. And that can be a problematic phrase. I want to acknowledge that up front. But the idea there is sometimes things are happening that you’re not aware of. And so like I think back on times when like I had a perspective on something but I didn’t have the full context of why that happened. And I spoke up and I thought said, Oh, this is a bad idea and why are we doing this? And really what was happening in that moment was I was sort of removing myself from people’s ideas of a future leader because I wasn’t taking the time to try and figure out why that thing was happening. 

Jim I was just jumping to a conclusion. And so, you know, like there are many times when I have done this in my career and if you talk to some of the people who’ve been there along the way, they might characterize it as like Jim has been emotional in his career. And that’s true. And I think that’s actually an asset. But like for me, it’s been learning about like, well, when is it appropriate to like lean in to emotion? Like it’s, you know, having an IQ is a really critical thing as a leader, but it’s like that can also be used in unfortunate ways. And, you know, I think probably the other thing that has helped me with that is a lot of training like on bias and like understanding like how you’re communicating. And I think it’s like the concerns I had that might have, you know, slowed me down a bit in the past, might have been valid, but I probably could have like approached it so differently. And I really wish I could go back and be like, Hey, calm down. Like, give it a night or two, then come back to it and or try to put yourself in other people’s positions to think about like why that might happen. Or here’s the best one that like we might don’t do don’t do anything. Like sometimes the best thing is to do nothing and just, you know, let somebody else solve the problem that you perceive. So, like, those are the things that I, you know, when I reflect on my career, but it’s become more abstract, especially the farther I get away from some of it. 

John So yeah, that’s interesting. Really interesting. And you’re right, you know, sometimes they’re the best decision is to decide to do nothing. That is a decision of itself to go back to the emotions. Is there a time when this is also a really tough thing for leaders, because a lot of times leaders of organizations are emotional, they’re very passionate? They’re very they’ve got a lot of conviction, confidence, whatever. They’re just a lot of emotions that do come out. Is that bad? Is it good? I mean, is there a time, for example, when a leader should display anger? Is that not really the place in a company environment? I mean, what’s your thought on that? 

Jim Yeah. So anger. I mean, I think anger is like I’m going to split hairs here. I’m like it’s I think it’s okay to express frustration because you can talk about frustration a bit more objectively. I think expressing anger is really dangerous because it can be misinterpreted. And so you have to be thoughtful about that, you know, with somebody. And I think the further you get up in the leadership chain, the more thoughtful you have to be about frustration because. You’re modeling certain behavior and the more constructive we can be about situations that might frustrate, frustrate us or make us angry, the better off people are. And so that’s what I think about a lot, you know, because there have been points when I’ve been angry and it’s like, you know, I have a former CEO I worked for. He was like, I, you know, I know something’s going on inside of your head right now, but you are so cool, calm and collected on the outside. And what was awesome was like and he was right because I was like raging out on the inside and I’m like, Those is good. This is good. And keeping it in. 

Jim I’ve finally made progress on this part of myself. But yeah, I’ll give you a counter-example like a really, you know, not recent one, but it happened, you know, pre-pandemic when I was working at my last company and my manager had convened a group of us together across our department. We were in the product department, so it was like product managers, product marketing people, and we’d been acquired by Cisco. And the product marketing team had worked really hard to come up with a launch plan for the next year and things had changed. But it wasn’t entirely obvious to all of us, like how much things had changed since the acquisition. And my manager basically said, Yeah, we’re not doing any of that. Like I’m, you know, sort of like glossing over the details. But the outcome of that was a lot of the people on the product marketing team, you could just see how crestfallen they were. And it made me angry. And I, you know, that was a moment where I wish I could take it back because I, you know, I like Unleashed and the product marketers, you know, all privately and they’re like, Yeah, thank you for standing up for us. Yeah. 

Jim You know, like, you are so frustrating. Like, we worked so hard on this, we worked on this for months and like, it just, like, pulls the plugin like one meeting. Well, as you might imagine, that did not and you know, like that for me. Like, you know, I had a conversation with my manager very shortly thereafter and he was like, That’s the first time I’ve ever been scared in a meeting. And I don’t know what happened because you’ve never displayed that behavior before. And we talked about it a bit. And, you know, I walked him through it and he was like, look, let me tell you something like don’t do that again, because you have so much potential and capability. That is definitely not the hell we’re dying on. And like, here’s why it is. And it led to a different conversation about like how he could be a better communicator because he knew all of these things that were going on, but he hadn’t made those manifest to the rest of the team. And so it improved our relationship. But I probably could have gone about that totally differently. And from then on for I was like, Well, I’m never going to do that again. If I ever get angry like that, I won’t do anything about it. I’ll write it down and then I’ll look at that the next day and see what like constructive steps I can take to improve the situation. Because I could have had a meeting with him the next day where I said, Hey, do you know how frustrated the product marketing team is, having worked on that for three months? Like, how can we make this better instead? You know, I kind of died on the Hill and, you know, the big spectacular explosion that was really dramatic and entertaining. But sometimes entertainment is not what we’re going for in the corporate office. 

John Yeah, that’s such a great point. And that’s great that you had somebody that could have that conversation with you, and that was a really great development moment for you. I mean, I, I think a lot of people and you see it in, you know, on TV and movies all the time, you know, the boss that comes in that’s, you know, barking and, you know, flying off the handle and stuff and you almost get trained. I remember as a kid starting in corporate America, thinking that that’s how a leader wasn’t. And I actually had my first leader was exactly like a character out of a movie. So I was thinking, okay, well, that’s got to be how everybody is that successful. And he was successful, which made it even almost worse. So it’s really important, though, and you bring up a good point. It’s like that fear that’s evoked in people is really just it then manifests in the distrust and insecurity and lack of willingness to take risks and chances when their boss is somebody that flies off the handle. It’s they don’t want to hear that. They don’t want to have that reaction. And so it’s really interesting. I want to go back to something you said earlier, which I thought was really great. And that’s, you know, assuming positive intent. I find a lot of times there are situations in organizations that are very misinterpreted. There’s decisions that people don’t understand the rationale for. And there’s very there’s a very good reason for a decision. But that reason was not communicated. And because of that, in the absence of an explanation or information, people make up their own narrative, they make up their own stuff. And oftentimes it’s totally, totally wrong. What’s your I mean, how should leaders how do they become aware of that or be more conscious of that? I mean, that’s a problem. And I’ve seen it and I’ve seen it just happened very recently with a. Major decision that was poorly communicated and so trickled down through the organization and it was a mess. What steps should leaders take to make sure that’s not the case? 

Jim There are a couple of tools I keep on hand. The first is that you know, when we discover such things, it’s or something bad happens or, you know, like people are dissatisfied with an outcome. We almost always do a retro on it. You know, we get somebody to get together to, like, talk through it so we can understand, like, wow, this thing happened. It was bad. Like, what can we do to make it better? And a lot of times it is communication that comes out of that. And like, who needs to be who, who needs to know, and when they need to know. And when you’re in a startup, those dynamics shift all the time. And so, you know, trying to we have to, like, help people understand that like as we evolve the company, things are going to be changing. And we also have to be prepared for the fact that not everybody is going to know everything. So how do we build processes in place to overcome that? The second thing that I do is try to have touch points in the organization with a variety of people, so I don’t just talk to my direct line like I am talking to them. I’m also spot-checking by communicating with I see throughout the organization really to find out like, hey, you know, like, what’s your understanding on this? 

Jim What do you think of this? I’ve also we’ve also created like an anonymous question forum in which anybody can ask any question about anything. And what’s interesting to me about that is, you know, it was a holdover from Duo and at Duo there was always like a bunch of questions going into that and, you know, mad props to the comms team for always going through those and finding ways to make them more presentable to the rest of the team. Because what came into those forums sometimes was not always got presented on stage because I got to see them myself every once in a while when one of them pertained to stuff I did. And what I think is interesting about where I work now is like we try to be so transparent and overcommunicate, we don’t get a lot of anonymous questions. And I think that’s actually in an indicator that people are getting the information that they need. So it’s another way of kind of like spot checking, like what’s going on here. 

Jim The other thing that I do is I make myself available to anybody, and I do that by blocking out time on my calendar every other week where anybody can come and ask me anything about the company. And I haven’t gotten a topic yet where I’ve been like, Oh, I don’t want to tell you about this, you know, and I’m waiting for that moment, but most of the time I’m like, Oh, you know what? You should have known about this, and I’m sorry you didn’t know about this. Let me figure out how we’re going to communicate this better in the future. Right. So those are some of the things, you know, that that we’re doing to try to make sure that people do get the information that they need. The other thing that is important is, especially in hybrid or 100% work environments, is really trying to find ways to get people together so that they can build empathy and trust with each other because it’s really hard to do it when you’re sitting behind zoom screens, even if you see that person all the time. It’s amazing what can happen when you have a couple of people play a silly game in a room together who haven’t had the chance to see each other in like six months. Like, you know, you come out of that and all of a sudden all sorts of problems get solved much more quickly. So those are some of the things that, you know, we think about and try to deploy it to help with that. 

John I love that that’s such, such good insight. I know and I know we’re running a little short of time as so many more things I want to ask you. But let’s talk about Black Mirror to share with the audience a little bit. And I know we’ve got it. We’ll put it in the show notes. We’ve got it a little bit in the intro there. But tell me a little bit about the company. It’s done really, really well, and grown fast under your leadership. Tell me a little bit about it. 

Jim Sure. So, you know, what we’re doing is helping small and medium-sized businesses solve for breaches. So when companies get breached, it can be really hard to determine when they’ve been breached. On average, it’s over 280 days for a company to discover that. And unfortunately, the only tools that are out there right now are really geared toward companies with really large budgets. So no one’s helping or looking out for the little guy. And so that’s what we do. And everything starts with culture, so we focus on building a good culture in the company. I know that that’s going to result in us building a good product because if we center our people, our people will send to our customers that we sent to our customers will solve real problems. And it makes it that much easier to sell a product, you know, create like a positive feedback loop where happy customers are happy to buy our product, which means that we can hire more people, build more culture, do more cool things. So that’s a little bit about what Lumiere is. You know, we’re technically based in southeast Michigan, but 100. Remote work, which has pros and cons, but we’re navigating through it like the rest of the world is excellent. 

John Well, I know that’s, first of all, a huge value. And what you do I know the issue is significant. I just was talking to a company that’s going through that right now a very serious issue in alarming that you say that it’s typically 280 days before somebody even realizes has been a breach that’s I would have said seven days. 

Jim Maybe I should have asked you because most of the time I got to tell you when to ask people. They guess 14 days. So that’s kind of the median. So what I would say is that tells me you’re a very optimistic fellow and I like that a lot. Not when it comes to. 

John Optimism or naive. One of the others has somewhere in the middle. Fascinating stuff. So we’ll put all that in the show notes, Jim, for all the listeners as well, if they want to get a hold of you or learn more about Blue Mirror, what’s the best place for them to do that? 

Jim The easiest thing to do is go to blumira.com. And you can sign up for a free trial there. And rest assured, I am staring at everything. So if you come our way, I will find you on the other side. 

John Awesome. I love it. Well, thank you for joining us today. Thanks for sharing some wisdom. I love your story. I love the things that you’re doing. No surprise you’re having the success you’re having. And I’m looking forward to hearing what’s going on in the future. So keep us up to date. 

Jim You’re welcome. And it’s been a pleasure. Thank you. 

John Awesome. We then hear Jim Simpson, who is the CEO of Blumira. Check him out for sure. Go to the website. We’ll have all that in the links. Appreciate you joining us today, as always. Like to subscribe you know, it’s do go down below. Give a five-star review and we will see you next time. Take care. 

John Thanks for joining us on today’s episode of Tomorrow’s Leader. For suggestions or inquiries about having me at your next event or personal coaching, reach me at Johh@johnlaurito.com. Thanks, lead on!