167 – Leading large with Tom Lakatos - John Laurito

167 – Leading large with Tom Lakatos

In today’s episode, host John Laurito chats with the Senior VP of Lincoln Investment, Tom Lakatos. Tom is John’s good friend and has kept in touch over the years. They talk a lot about leadership, the importance and power of involving your life partner, and lastly, to not chase money but instead chase greatness. You will surely love this episode, so make sure you tune in.

Tom Lakatos takes an immense amount of pride and pleasure in enabling others’ success. Using a principle-based approach to providing exemplary leadership at the right time, he has been able to help his teams and clients believe that success is attainable and ultimately execute at a high level to achieve it.

Connect with him on LinkedIn here.

[0:00] Intro

[2:33] Tom Lakatos and getting into leadership

[5:53] Naturally emerging as a leader or tapped to become one

[10:19] How does leadership affect Tom Lakatos

[18:36] When you make your wife your business partner

[22:22] Money finds greatness

[23:43] The beauty of involving your life partner in everything

[27:23] The time enabler vs. the time demander

[28:17] How to reach out to Tom?

[29:14] Outro

John (Intro): I have been on a quest to learn everything I can about leadership obsessed with what makes the best leaders so good. After running companies small and large for the last 20 years, today I speak on stages all across the world to audiences who are interested in that same question. My name is John Laurito and I’m your host. I invite you to join me on this journey as we explore this topic: What makes the best leaders so good? Welcome to Tomorrow’s Leader

John: All right. Welcome to today’s episode of Tomorrow’s Leader, where we dive deep on all things leader-related, related to leading yourself and leading others. I’m John Laurito, your host today with a great guest, somebody who I’ve known for a lot of years, a friend of mine, a past colleague from, as I’m going to say, like 20 years ago. I’ve got Tom Lakatos on. Tom, welcome. Thanks for joining me today. 

Tom: That’s 20 years down, that’s that’s scary. That’s a little bit, but it goes fast, doesn’t it? 

John: That was a long time ago, man. I remember. So my earliest memories were, you know, way back in the Ameriprise days, you running an office, me running an office. And you were that guy on that scorecard that I’m like, all right, you and I just battling back and forth, trying to get up to the top spot. And that was my first experience with Tom Lakatos. So then we met at a conference. And, you know, I’m like, I like this guy a lot. This is a guy that I have fun competing with. 

Tom: Thanks, man. Yeah, well, that was fun. Like we all, you know, every now and then you see that flash in the pan guy that, you know, comes up to the top of the scorecard and you never hear from them again. But, you know, the group of people that consistently get good results and, you know, stay at the top of the scorecard. John, where you and I tended to live along with some others, you know, there’s that group that usually does things the right way. They usually inspire people. They usually help people win. And that’s, I think, why we were able to have that connection because I think we’re rooted in the same fundamental principles. 

John: Yeah, I agree. So, you know, you’ve you’ve you’ve done a ton. You’ve accomplished a lot. And I want to get into your experience and your background. You’re now running Lincoln Investment as a senior vice president overhead in sales and really the key one of the key leaders there with the field. But, you know, I’m always interested in everybody, not everybody, but most people were kind of bit by the bug with leadership at some point in their life, whether it was a specific situation or a person that was in their life that kind of changed their mindset or their path. Was that the case with you? Was there a time that you remember where you’re like you don’t want to think I want to get into leadership? 

Tom: Yeah, it’s a great question. I mean, you know, I think the answer is I was always one that gravitated towards positionally. You know, there’s an old saying that, you know, we used to hear at Ameriprise that it’s very true and that is that leaders are often chosen by the left-right. And so, you know, my first experience of leadership was that people chose me early on. Right. Whether that was captain of the baseball team or, you know, captain of the sports team or student council president or things like that. I always found myself being

chosen by my peers to be in a position of leadership. I was always outspoken. I was always a good student. 

Tom: And I think people liked me and respected me. And then as I got into my career a little bit, I had an experience that I had been exposed to some great leaders. My first experience at my first job out of college was Disney, maybe the best company in the world at customer service. And I learned a ton about that. But then I got into nonprofit work and I worked for Anthony Shriver and he was the first one I really worked for where I really looked up to him. Here’s a guy that, you know, is worth billions. Plus, remember the Kennedy family? You’d never know it if you met him. 

Tom: And he dedicated his life to helping other people and creating better outcomes for people. And so I got to really understand in terms of my own career that I had this real passion for helping people and making a difference. I was an advocate for people with disabilities, and I like this giant sort of wake behind me. I was always impressed by the size of the crowd, you know, people thanking Anthony for the impact that he had given. So I think that was my first real experience with somebody that was really impactful and how it goes in Ameriprise eventually. You know, at the time it was American Express and there were some people there that really took an interest. They identified that. 

Tom: And I think that’s part of it’s an underrated thing that leaders do. Sometimes they tap somebody on the shoulder and they say, hey, man, I see something in you. In my case, that was Peter Vilardi, who I think, you know, Peter, I was the CEO of the South. I was a young manager in his region in 2004, and he and his staff had identified me as a potential leader. And at that point, Peter took a real interest in my career on a regular one on ones and, you know, ongoing coaching and mentoring made sure that I I took an opportunity outside of his region so that I’d be exposed to different ideas. And different people know Peter’s got that way about him. And he figured out really quickly with me that I didn’t need a whole lot of push. You just had to kind of steer me a little and coach me. And that was I think we’re really starting. 

John: It’s interesting because, you know, I obviously do know him very well. And he does have that way. If he tells you, you know, hey, I could imagine that, you know, him tapping into his shoulder. I mean, that’s you’re like, OK, yeah, of course I’m going to follow you. And if you think I’ve got the potential, how do you know, it’s interesting because you bring up a really good point. You know, there’s a lot of leaders that just naturally rise to the top. I mean, they just emerge and people follow them. But there’s also a lot of leaders, to your point, and I’ve been on both sides of this, where the. 

John: Might not have emerged unless somebody tapped them on the shoulder where they actually said, hey, you know what, I see some potential in you and I don’t know what that percentage of great leaders are that that represent that group like, they might not have done it had somebody not said, hey, I see some potential you. But how important do you think that is as a leader, to look for leadership potential in others and tap them on the shoulder? And do you have, you know, maybe even any examples of people that you did that with? 

Tom: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s well, here’s the thing. I think it’s part of our job as leaders, right, to identify and develop leaders behind you. You know, I think about that kind of thing a lot like the bench behind me and the strength of the team I have around me and my role in

developing them. And I also think that, at least in the career that I’ve chosen, you know, the people that we recruit and train, the people that become financial advisors, ultimately they may not view themselves as leaders within their practices. But I would argue that that’s exactly what their job is, to influence people to better outcomes, which by definition is leadership. 

Tom: So, you know, if you’re going to do it right and I think you and I come from the same school of Gigantic that says, you know, everything we do is observable. Therefore, everything we do influences other people. So you might as well be deliberate about that. If you believe that everything we do is observable and everything we do influences others, that I think it’s a conscious decision that you make to do that in a positive direction. And as somebody that’s been trained and as somebody and don’t get me wrong, I’m not the be-all I see there are things I can do better. And they’re certainly pretty self aware and always looking to develop. I don’t I’m always afraid of the guy that’s arrived. 

Tom: You know, there’s nowhere to go from there but down. And I’ve never not arrived. I’m still an upward trajectory. Hopefully I’m still trying to impact a lot of people. So, yeah, I think that it’s part of my role to tap people on the shoulder and say, I see something in you and I’d like to develop it in you. And that was one of the cool things I learned about Peter. You know, when you lead a bunch of sales leaders, he knows that they’re all sales leaders. So, of course, they’re going to position all of their people as the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

Tom: And, you know, Peter was very in tune with that. So, you know, sort of a trust but verify thing. I remember he used to send Gil Jakes, who is his implementation manager, used to send Jill on the road to go observe firsthand everything that, you know, spend a day in the field with every leader in his region. And Jill would come back and force rank everybody and say, here’s what I think, you know, here’s what they say are the top leaders. 

Tom: Here’s what I say to the top leaders. And if Peter identified you as a top leader through that process, he took a personal interest in your career. And it’s been pretty amazing. Like it’s you know, you think, you know, some people say that and then you have one on one and you never hear back from them again. And Peter, though, to his word, he’s still a mentor in my life today. He’s still I don’t talk to him every month or every week. But then when we catch up, it’s like we just spoke yesterday and he cuts right to the quick of, you know, what are you working on? What do you need help with? What’s what’s your bottleneck is you know, Peter loves to talk about bottlenecks. 

Tom: And, you know, I’ve tried to pay that forward and I’ve tried to be that for some people because I feel like, you know, I don’t know that I’d be where I am without him. To your point, like it’s known, I think about that a lot. I think I’d be successful. I think I’d be a great practice 

with a lot of clients. I just don’t know that I’m much more motivated by impacting a group of advisors in a group of clients. 

John: Well, and the other thing to which I think is worth saying is, you know, we always have blind spots. And when you’re working with someone else, like Peter and I’ve, you know, shared I’ve worked with him for many years as my coach. And there are always things that somebody else is going to see that you can’t. And if you’re truly serious about developing as a leader, I don’t care if it’s somebody who’s, you know, a coach of a team or a teacher or

parent. I mean, everybody is a leader in one respect or another because you are, to your point, your influence on other people and leadership skills totally change your life. 

John: I mean, if you can learn how to lead your own life better, you almost can’t be a leader of other people. Not almost. You can’t unless you really figure that out for yourself. So I’d love to talk about that with you. How does leadership affect you? I mean, you’re I know you you know, most of the audience doesn’t. You’re a guy who’s just like, you know, your capacity for doing a lot and being productive is huge. And all that takes a lot of leadership. But how do you view leadership as it relates to leading your life in general? 

Tom: Yeah, well, I mean, look, I think it starts with, you know, it starts with understanding who you are and what you want, right. I think the greatest advice ever given is I think it’s inscribed with the Oracle. Delphi, right. I think it was Aristotle who said, know thyself. So I think it starts with an understanding of who I am. And to your point, I’m pretty. I’ve gotten to the point where I’m pretty clear I know who I am. I know what I’m about. You know, I take regular inventory of my core values and principles. And I find that a lot of people, my principles don’t change. They’re bedrock. Core principles are what they are. But my values have changed. I’ve gotten older and my family’s gotten older. 

Tom: And now it just stands to reason that I want different things at fifty two than I wanted in forty two than I wanted at thirty two. Right. So I think that it benefits me every now and then to make sure that I’m living in alignment with what matters to me. And am I doing the things that would generate the kinds of results that facilitate what I’m trying to accomplish in my career and in my life. And, you know, and then and then I think you’re right. I find that one of the secrets for me is that I like to fill my calendar with the right activities so that the hardest thing I have to do each day is really just get up. You know what I mean? Like, it’s funny how it works. 

Tom: I’ve learned this over the years from kindergarten through college. We work on a calendar. Right. The clock bell rings. You go to class, bell rings, you leave, you go to the next class. And then we graduate from school. We think we think I’m done with that. And I’m going to try this without a calendar for a while. I don’t need the alarm clock. I don’t need that. And what we find is that we function better with structure. And I’ve learned that about myself over the years, that if I can fill my calendar with activities that are productive, that lead to the right results, we would call the key activities for my life, not just my job. 

Tom: By the way, I’ll never forget this job. It’s one of the lessons I learned when I was a first-year financial adviser. I learned the power of executing because here’s what I know, right? If I succeed and I know people like this, and I’m sure you do, but if I succeed at work at the expense of my life, do I really win? I’m not sure. And if I succeed at home but I fail in my career, do I really win again? I’m not sure. I think it only really works if I win everywhere. Right. And winning. Does that mean different things to me than it does to you? I’m not talking about amassing the most riches. I’m talking about a fulfilled life. To me, winning is having a fulfilled life without financial stress where I have a strong impact on and positive impact on the people around. Right. That leads to fulfillment for me. 

Tom: And so ultimately, you know, I had this in my first year. I remember I was really worried about this because I was just married. Right. I started my career in 2001. I had just been married in November of 2000. And I was really concerned that I was going to jeopardize my

marriage. And I remember saying to my manager at the time, I said, listen, we had this process with you. It was really what do you want for yourself? And personal goals, self down the goals. And my number one self development goal was I wanted to be a great husband. I just got married and he said, well, great, I need you to schedule activities in your calendar every week. That work towards being a great husband, I don’t even know what he’s talking about. What do you mean? 

Tom: Well, I want to see a date night there. I want to see you go to lunch once a week with your wife. Right. I want to see if I’m going to ask you if you’ve called your wife during the day from time to time, and the answer would be yes. Believe it or not, he held me accountable to being great. You would ask me in my one on ones, how was your date night to have lunch with your wife? Wait, I noticed you substituted that week when he rescheduled it. And literally I learned the power of leadership as it relates to helping people win in their life. 

Tom: And it was profound. I’ve always taken this sort of approach since then because I think it’s immensely powerful when you’re able to really impact people in that way. That’s to me, true leadership and it’s how it’s impacted my life. It’s become so much more than just something I do, you know what I mean? Like, it affects how I interact with my kids. It affects how I interact with my wife, and hopefully it affects how they interact with people. Yeah, because I think a lot of it’s transfer. 

John: Yeah. There’s so much there. And what you said, I mean I think about a couple of things, you know, one is you’re so right. I mean I look at the pinnacle of life is happiness. Everybody wants to be happy and that’s defined differently by different people, by everybody. But, you know, figuring out what that means to you. And like you said, it’s not necessarily about accumulating this massive amount of wealth. You know, I used to think that, OK, if I’m successful in business and I’m willing to do whatever it takes to be successful in business, then that’s what I’m going to be successful personally. I’m going to be successful in my relationship and be successful health-wise. 

John: And then I realize it’s not. I mean, I remember a time in Hartford actually, where, you know, I took over that office. I’m like, I’m going to do whatever it takes to turn this place around. And I was there at six a.m. until 10:00 at night some nights. And I’m like, OK, you know, you don’t. It doesn’t take long before you quickly realize, OK, there’s sacrifices and consequences to being that imbalanced, especially for an extended period of time. And when you figure out how to get everything working and to your point, from the other perspective as a leader working with people and you figure out what’s important to them outside of work, you know, I always am amazed that the leaders that that never have any conversations with their people about anything other than work, you know, they don’t know their family situation. 

John: They don’t know their hobbies. They don’t know the interests behind them. You know, I remember working with a leader of mine who I went through the Witwicky exercise and I found out one of his big goals, he was a musician, too, and he wanted to open up. He wanted to build his own studio inside his house. And that became the driving force. So much behind everything he did. We talked about it and it was, hey, OK. And it became about that and him doing a great job at work helped that. But I would have known that when I talked, I

asked them. So I think a great leader is somebody who asks questions, hey, what’s important to you? You know, what do you want to accomplish? So great, great points. Yeah. 

Tom: Look, I mean. Well, John, you know, and I well, I think listen, I think you and I both know look, I should tell people this like this. Here’s how this usually goes. When you join my team, I’m going to start out. I’m going to be really nice. Right. And I want you to like me and I want to influence you. But eventually, if I don’t get what I want, I’ll be really direct. And then if I continue to not get what I want, I’ll be a jerk. And you probably won’t like me so much then. 

Tom: And the thing is, I’m all of those things at times and I’m none of those things at times. But I’m really just trying to figure out how to get you to do the right things. So how about we eliminate all that and you just tell me what’s important to you so I can help you get it. And when I see you acting in a way that doesn’t lead to that, I’m going to absolutely point it out and try to redirect you down a path that leads to you getting what you want. All you have to do is tell me at some point if that changes. So. Right. And I think that there’s this sort of fear to get into that stuff with people. And, you know, I do it in a very professional way. I’m not looking at it, you know, to tell me the intimate details of your life. 

Tom: That’s not what I’m after, what I’m after those I know that my goals don’t motivate us. Like hacking my boss’s goals don’t motivate me. Right. I mean, he wants me to be here because that’s what he needs for the company. But I want to be here always. If you just hold me to what you want, you’re going to miss out on all this other great stuff that could happen if you would lead me to what I want. And when I hire, I’m looking for people that want more than I want, generally speaking. 

Tom: But I also think that I just want to clarify, because I think, you know, in your comment, you know, in that pursuit of a great date night and being a good husband. Listen, don’t you know how this goes? We man, I worked every Saturday. Fifteen years. Right. I did plenty of 

seven a.m. to eight p.m. Nine p.m. In fact, my first two years I’ll tell you this, this is critical. My job. This is true. When I was, my wife worked at Disney when I got this job at the end of this career. Twenty one, I remember going up the 17th floor of the Columbia Bank building in downtown Orlando. 

Tom: To get the job offer, and I dragged my wife along and she was so fish out of water, she was a server at Disney, she had work till 2:00 a.m. the night before. It was like, what am I dressed up in an elevator at eight a.m. and what am I doing here? And I said to her, I said, listen, I think they’re about to offer me this job. And I’m going to if they offer it to me, I’m going to be building a business for both of us that one day I’m going to sell because I don’t have a 401k in this job. This is an entrepreneurial endeavor. 

Tom: And I just want you to hear it, because if you have a problem with it, I want to know before I take it. And I’ll respect that, but I just don’t want to find out six months from now that you think I shouldn’t take this job, because really, if I take it, I need your help. You have to help me. And there’s going to be days I’m going to call you at nine o’clock at night and say I’m coming home. And you’re going to say, not if you didn’t set an appointment yet. You’re not. We’re not. If you didn’t generate a lead today, you’re not. Right. I’m going to ask you to help hold me accountable to the stuff that I need to do to be successful at this, because I heard that there are some spouses who aren’t supportive and it makes it harder for the person to succeed.

Tom: When you get your teeth kicked in all day long and you call home at eight o’clock and your spouse says, aren’t you ever coming home and buried with the kids? And you already feel guilty that you’re not there. And that’s just an additional poke in the eye that makes it harder. So I want to know how you feel before I take credit. Sure enough, John, this is sales one to one. You’d be amazed. Maranda was my manager in Orlando. He offers me the job and then I say, yeah, this is really good. We have to talk about it because I think you should. He literally just left the room and we’re sitting in his office. Well, I guess we should talk about it. Like that kind of stuff is legit. 

Tom: Like we undervalue the power that like we didn’t even think twice. We just said, OK, I guess we’ll talk about it now. He came in like fifteen minutes later. Did you talk about it? We said, yeah. And he said, What are your thoughts? And I said I’ll take it. And, you know, sure 

enough, that’s what my wife did for a year, was, you know, I’d call her at eight o’clock at night after a long day and say, I’m coming home. And she’d say, not if you did, you meet Sakashita. My goal, set appointments, meet one new person every day. I made it. That’s one thing I’ve been very good at over the years. I can take hard stuff, John, and make it pretty simple. 

Tom: But this concept of balance, I don’t want people to mistake my comments about being a good husband, my family, for the fact and somehow extrapolate out that I didn’t work really hard. I worked really hard for a really long time and most of the people like you and I that have survived it, you know, it’s funny, I was just talking about this yesterday where they’re like 80 people in the cubes when I first started. You might remember that type of environment. Oh, yeah. There are 80 advisors in the Orlando office. When I first joined, there’s probably twelve of us still in the business. Fifteen. It’s a hard business, but the people that are stuck there are all doing really well. They’ve all had an incredible career helping clients with stuff that has depth and meaning. 

Tom: And, you know, they’ve made great money and earned it the right way in the process. So there’s this: it’s taken a long time, but I don’t think the basic premises have changed. Right. Work hard and care about what you do. Right? I believe money tends to find greatness. Right. I always try to teach people they’ll chase on, chase money, chase greatness. If you can be great at this, people will find you, clients will find you, clients will respect you and eventually will be successful financially as well. 

John: Yeah, it’s interesting and I’ve realized that as well. When you find what you’re passionate about and you do and you commit to being excellent at it, the money will take care of itself. When people chase the money first, that’s where they end up doing something for the wrong reasons or they’re unhappy. And just to go back, I love the point that I get from what you were saying and I think that a lot of the listeners will know, you were involved in this journey that you took right from the beginning. 

John: I mean, it was a partnership from the start, including the decision to even begin it. And that’s I think that that’s to me at least, what I take is the difference. And I think sometimes that doesn’t happen that many times it doesn’t happen. And that’s where you had a partnership going in. She was helping you go through that. You were going through the ups and downs together. And it was a journey that probably, you know, not to get too personal,

but it probably made you get even stronger and closer because of that and ultimately led to your success in the business. So I think there’s a lot of lessons that can be, you know. 

Tom: Yeah, well, you know, it’s funny, John, is that you’re absolutely right. It continued. I mean, as we started as I started to do well and started, you know, as I dug in and I started to succeed in the leadership track and it looked like that was going to be my path, that, you know, a large company like Ameriprise, if you want opportunities like that, you have to be willing to move. And where that really started that first day as an advisor. 

Tom: And then it continued as I started to get opportunities. I’ll never forget it. My wife just said, listen, I’ll go wherever you tell me. We should go for your career if that’s what you want to do. And if you tell me that it’s good for our family, you know, as long as I can participate and you’re not dictating to me and I’m your partner, then I’ll go wherever you go. As long as I have as much say in terms of where we live, in the communities we live in. And of course, you know, I rely on her a lot. And one of the things that’s been really powerful over the years is that she’s really given me the ability to focus. 

Tom: I’ve been really fortunate. I’ve never said you have to stay home. You can’t get a job. I’m not that kind of guy. What I’ve said is you choose if you want to work outside the home, work outside the home and solve for that, and if you don’t want to work outside the home and you want to stay home, obviously I’d love my kids to be raised by their mom. And I’m great with that, too. So she chose to stay home since we started moving around in 05. And every day, my kids are little reflections of her and she’s the kindest person I know. But she’s put me in a position over the years to really have the ability to focus, which is, I think, very underrated. She takes care of a lot of the stuff at home, so I don’t have to. 

Tom: And so I can because she knows that my job is pretty intense and that I need to be really focused in order to be successful at it. I really don’t. To your point, I don’t know that I’d be successful if I had a lesser partner. She really is my partner. And, you know, it’s funny, you know, when I decided I knew when I’d marry her. So when I worked on nonprofit work prior to part of this, I enjoyed every minute of it. I worked with best buddies in Florida, made no money, but I was fundraising and developing and I was doing building a monster network that really benefited me when I became a financial adviser, really connected people. 

Tom: And but in the whole time my wife was working at Disney, she basically carried me through my 20s because she was making great money, believe it or not, servers at Disney. My wife worked at the California Grill on top of the contemporary coast, at the grandchildren and all the really nice restaurants where you slow dinner, lots of expensive meals and great tips. And I just kept telling her, I have a plan. I have a plan. She never once asked me what the plan was, so I saved money in my first two years as an adviser. 

Tom: And you know, I managed before we got married, I took her to New York City and I had saved 10 grand and I had a cab take us like, you know, West Fifth Avenue and West and east. Seventy eight, you know. And we got out of the cab and she said, What are we doing? I said, we’re going to walk down Fifth Avenue. And I said ten thousand dollars to thank you for everything you’ve done. And I just want to stop and whatever story you want to stop in and I want you to buy your stuff, whatever you want. I think, you know, I can’t say thank you enough.

Tom: Well, she didn’t spend a penny. We walk down. There’s David, your business coach. There’s Barney’s and she got no, no, no. With the Barneys outlet in Orlando, we don’t I wouldn’t buy. So at the end of the street, she goes, why don’t we just invest the ten grand? I’m like, almost right on the spot. I was dropped to my knees. I thought I’d found the right person. So she’s truly been. It’s funny the roles, you know, we learned since then, John. Yeah. They had a name for that right at the time. Enabler versus the time demanders. It’s a leadership concept. My wife has always been a time enabler for me deliberately for years, and it’s a huge part of my success I think over the years. 

John: That’s fantastic, man. I have chills. I love that story. You might have some wives listening that are saying, what, you turned down ten grand at Fifth Avenue. What. But I love it. I love it. 

Tom: I think it’s for what it’s worth, I think it’s still in a Roth IRA. 

John: probably quadrupled if not more. Awesome stuff. Man, I loved their conversation. I know at the end of our time here, we will put a link there so people can see you on LinkedIn. Of course, for those of you who want to learn a little bit more about what you do or Lincoln, is that the best way for people to reach you that way through LinkedIn? 

Tom: Yeah, LinkedIn is a great way to make contact with me and I certainly welcome it. As you know, John, I’m a student of leadership. I believe that it matters. And I’m grateful for people like you that do this and facilitate these sorts of conversations to make people more aware of it. 

John: That’s great. Well, I know this will be a popular episode and you’ve provided a lot of value, so appreciate you having your buddy. That’s been great. 

Tom: My pleasure. 

John: Absolutely. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in today. I’ve been here with Tom Lakatos, senior VP of Lincoln Investment. As always, make sure you like, subscribe, share, and of course, go down below. Give a five-star review. Let us know your thoughts. I always appreciate your thoughts and ideas on future topics as well as future guests. And stay tuned in a matter of two days, at least from today. My book, Tomorrow’s Leader, comes out in ebook format on the 27th and another couple of months, hard copies. So I will keep you up to date on that. As always, appreciate your time today. Look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks, everybody. Take care. 

John (Closing): Thanks for joining us on today’s episode of Tomorrow’s Leader. For suggestions, or inquiries, about having me at your next event, or personal coaching, reach me at john@lauritogroup.com Once again, that’s john@lauritogroup.com. Thanks! Lead on!

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